Keep Your Filter Off Our Internet

[cadmium]

Unless you've been under a rock for the last week, you will have heard that the Federal Government intends to establish a mandatory, ISP-level clean-feed for Australian internet users.

Like many intenet users and ISPs, ther Australian Web Industry Association is against the implementation of a system that will result in the people of Australia being told what they can and cannot view online.

While we agree that children should be protected from illegal and inappropriate content online, we do not believe that an ISP-level mandatory filter is the answer.

Find out more about our stance on the issue and how you can help fight it by visiting Keep Your Filter Off Our Internet (http://www.keepyourfilteroffourinternet.com/).

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Despite the Government originally proposing an opt-in policy to filtering, Communications Minister Stephen Conroy has confirmed a two-tier system: a mandatory one that would block all “illegal material” and an optional tier that would block material deemed unsuitable for children. Essentially this amounts to across-the-board censorship with no ability opt-out.

If the second Tier is optional then your final sentence confuses me. I read it as "the government's going to block all illegal material on the internet and we're not able to opt out of this scheme".

[Dave]

Maybe someone from the committee should notify Simon @ Whirlpool about it. While the forum members there all know about the issue already, I think the more press outlets that hammer the point home, the better.

[Ruxton]

If the second Tier is optional then your final sentence confuses me. I read it as "the government's going to block all illegal material on the internet and we're not able to opt out of this scheme".

Because the 1st tier is mandatory and who decides what belongs in each tier? So even though the 2nd filter is optional, who's to say things you currently enjoy of questionable legality aren't going to end up in tier 1??

[KennethDreyer]

This forum sucks.

[mattman]

Kenneth - There is a two tier system which the government is proposing:

Tier 1 -> All internet users filter
- This filter will filter out any and all content the government (ACMA and associated agencies) believe is illegal. What is "illegal" however is a somewhat gray area.
Tier 2 -> Kiddie safe filter
- This is an "opt-out" filter that will work to protect end users from child porn and other content deemed by the government to be offensive/inappropriate for children.

So really, the main concern is what content ACMA (and associates) will consider "illegal" and how this will effect the way we use the internet (speed decreases, freedom of speech).

[Alfreido]

To be honest, I don't mind that.

You may when they block Youtube/Facebook/Wikipedia/Myspace etc. because of the possibility of them containing illegal or explicit content.

[Dave]

What is it really their trying to block out? Child porn and similar illegal stuff?

To be honest, I don't mind that.

The level 1 block filters out 'inappropriate' material - so anything the govt thinks you should not see (evidently, judged by their secret standards). You can opt out of this filter by contacting your ISP. Will you be added to a list of people who 'want to access unsafe material' ? Who knows...

The level 2 block cannot be removed, and according to the govt, is set up to block access to what they deem illegal. Child porn, terrorism, extremist sites, pirate material etc. As this is a 'black list' approach, it means things will be constantly being added to the filter.

However, since the government has not said just what the criteria is for the filters, no one knows what will be blocked. Abortion sites? Most likely would end up at a level 1 filter. Foreign news sites - perhaps if not in line with government views, could be at a level 1 or level 2 filter. That's the big deal here, they are not saying just what will end up in these block lists.

Try to imagine the burocratic process if your site should for whatever reason end up on this filter. False positives will ALWAYS happen... Imagine the disruption to your business.

Keep in mind - this is only filtering http traffic. P2P will be unaffected, and let's face it, the majority of illegal file transfers are done via P2P. So just what portion of illegal material will be unavailable under this filter... 10%? 5%?

What the reports are trying to keep quiet is the fact that the trial filters showed a speed decrease of approximately 30% on your internet connection, and could be anywhere up to 80%. Additionally, since this filtering is to be implemented at ISP level, they are going to wear the cost... and don't think for a moment it will not be passed onto the users.

So what you are talking about is an archaic and inefficient system, that will prove highly ineffective at stopping anything, all the while slowing our internet connections down, but you will pay more for the privilege. All under the guise of 'protecting us'...

Frankly, I mind... I mind a LOT...

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Because the 1st tier is mandatory and who decides what belongs in each tier? So even though the 2nd filter is optional, who's to say things you currently enjoy of questionable legality aren't going to end up in tier 1??

What belongs in each tier is stated (first = current things restricted to all people, second = things restricted only to children).

If you're enjoying things that the australian government would consider to be restricted from all people then you can't really complain about the implementation of a filter that stops you (unless it doesn't work or slows the internet lahlahlah).

I've got a bee in my bonnet about this topic and how there's a tendency to treat the internet like some special form of media that should get exemptions because it's all international and electronic and new. I think that's toss and gets in the way of two much more succinct debates.

Firstly - The method the government is proposing to censor the web looks like it's shit. We wouldn't accept 10% of our valid library books being removed from the shelves just for the cause of censorship, why is the web different? Likewise, we couldn't accept every book being written on paper that takes twice as long to read just so we could censor a few.

Second debate is over what should/shouldn't be censored. It's on going and it's a shit fight. Easier to deal with point one.

[KennethDreyer]

This forum sucks.

[tuna]

If they start blocking out child pornography and that kind of stuff, I frankly don't mind. If they start blocking youtube, facebook, myspace etc I might actually move back home (I'm from Norway!), because then I'd figure they will block A LOT more than just those. If they start blocking pirate sites, porn and similar stuff who some people find really offencive, I will just be way above average pissed off.

What are the chances of this actually becoming true? I know that back in Norway we hear about similar shocking stuff all the time, but nothing of it really ever happens.

They have stated, if it is illegal it's going to be blocked. With maybe an add on of the gambling sites too.

So that banning Porn, pirate sites, anything XXX rated, . Tier 2 may go all the way to an "M" rating too.

[benmay]

Why have we not done something like the Queensland Seafood Industry Assoc. (http://www.qsia.com.au) Website, which is a good way for people to take action.

I know this is the 3rd one they have done, and they get a large amount of people fill it out and show their support for the issue.

Example 1 - Moreton Bay (http://www.qsia.com.au/moreton-bay.html) | Example 2 - Access to QLD Seafood (http://www.qsia.com.au/404.html)

All it is is a php script that sends that message to the Nominated Email addresses from the person who fills it out and puts the template message at the top.

[tuna]

Why have we not done something like the Queensland Seafood Industry Assoc. (http://www.qsia.com.au) Website, which is a good way for people to take action.

I know this is the 3rd one they have done, and they get a large amount of people fill it out and show their support for the issue.

Example 1 - Moreton Bay (http://www.qsia.com.au/moreton-bay.html) | Example 2 - Access to QLD Seafood (http://www.qsia.com.au/404.html)

All it is is a php script that sends that message to the Nominated Email addresses from the person who fills it out and puts the template message at the top.

Nice idea, however I know that l automated responses are a waste of time, the relevant ministerial staff just count them up, but not a lot of real attention is paid to them.

However a personalised unique response get a lot more attention.

Also online petitions are a waste of time as they hold no legal value at all.

[benmay]

I actually filled out one of those petitions for the QLD Seafood one, and received 2 letters from State MP's explaining "blah blah".. so it was good to see they received it.

I sent an email to my MP today, and it was a pain trying to think / steal from other peoples letters.. that way it's nice and easy for people to get involved, it's something Ma and Pa could fill out and feel as if they've done something.. They're not that passionate enough to write a letter from scratch..

Plus it fills their inbox with tonnes of mail ;) added bonus

[cadmium]

I sent an email to my MP today, and it was a pain trying to think / steal from other peoples letters.. that way it's nice and easy for people to get involved, it's something Ma and Pa could fill out and feel as if they've done something.. They're not that passionate enough to write a letter from scratch..

There are a number of sample letters on the website that the authors have given consent to be used by people wanting to write to their MP, just a simple cut and paste job.

The Keep Your Filter Off Our Internet (http://keepyourfilteroffourinternet.com/) website is specifically aimed at the web industry, not the general public, so we're not really aiming it at the "ma and pa" demographic - that's for the crowd at nocleanfeed.com (http://nocleanfeed.com). :)

Thanks for the feedback though, we'll keep it mind. Good to hear you have taken the time to write to your rep though, I hope many more are doing the same.

[tuna]

I actually filled out one of those petitions for the QLD Seafood one, and received 2 letters from State MP's explaining "blah blah".. so it was good to see they received it.
Plus it fills their inbox with tonnes of mail ;) added bonus

The staff just bundle up the like letters, and do a mass mailout back to you with the standard info letter. Especially with a hot topic. What really gets them is a hand written letter or a personal visit.

[Cindy]

A lot of people are quite ignorant about this issue, including a few techies I've spoken to. Apart from whats been in online media, have there been any news stories or public debates? And if not... why not? Reps of the different ICT organisations in a publicized debate with Conroy. Maybe the general public need some educating & who better to do it than their own ICT industry.

[Franki]

Optus & iinet to put filter to test: http://www.techworld.com.au/article/267223/optus_iinet_put_filters_test

[Dave]

Here we go...

http://www.whirlpool.net.au/news/?id=1816

[kay]

And Michael Malone tells it straight:

Malone concluded: "This is the worst Communications Minister we've had in the 15 years since the [internet] industry has existed."

http://www.theage.com.au/news/technology/biztech/net-censorship-plan-backlash/2008/11/11/1226318639085.html?page=fullpage

[kay]

Laurel Papworth is putting together a video - she wants everyone to post their protest photo on Flickr, tagged nocleanfeed.

http://silkcharm.blogspot.com/2008/11/australia-internet-filter-protest.html

[ChAtMaN]

Agreed with Gary, personalized letters often get more attention. Does anyone happen to know anyone in Perth that we would visit. I think a visit by a few people in the industry, armed with the facts could be more effective.

I'll go there myself, but the opinion of one student wont hold much water compared to other people :)

[Tania]

it seems protests are being planned.
http://sites.google.com/site/stopthecleanfeed/protests
http://www.facebook.com/reqs.php#/event.php?eid=45738419714

[Tania]

bumping for those (like me) who are interested, but forgetful :) ...

protests around the country tomorrow. Perth one is at Stirling Gardens, 12pm - 3pm.

[Everlongdrummer]

I hope to god the trials screw up big time, because the ISP's themselves won't hesitate to make that clear.

[tuna]

I hope to god the trials screw up big time, because the ISP's themselves won't hesitate to make that clear.

That will not matter conroy is painted into a corner he has to implement something now.

[jexley]

BUMP: http://www.securecomputing.net.au/News/140688,iinet-withdraws-internet-filter-trial-application.aspx

Thought this would interest.

[Franki]

iiNet have pulled out of the trial now...