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designclubau
23-02-2010, 12:13 PM
Hello Everyone,

I'm really excited to be a part of this growing community.

We are a fresh start-up site called Design Club which is a design contest marketplace where contest holders can crowdsource design projects from a countless number of devoted designers in Australia.
Design Club introduces a clever way of having designs done without limiting ones choices to just a few designers, but rather buyers are exposed to a whole community of designers!

So why we are doing this? We believe there are heaps of highly talented and professional designers out there in Australia who have no medium of presenting their work to the public, and find it hard to catch a break. We want to create a platform where designers can showpiece their work and illustrate their creative capabilities, and at the same time contest their skills within the community of designers.

Having said all this, we are yet to launch our site. However, we will be making the logo for the site our 1st contest. And of course there will be a prize! So stay tuned…

Subscribe to our newletter on our site www.designclub.com.au , we will keep you updated. Or follow us on twitter www.twitter.com/designclubau

We are looking forward to working with the growing community of designers in Australia and become a well-known name.


If anyone wishes to contact us feel free to shoot an email to [email protected] , we would love to hear from you.


Thanks.

Alvin
23-02-2010, 12:30 PM
So you are trying to profit off the very people you will be driving out of business, and that is a positive for who?

Why does there need to be a middleman taking a cut and creating an adversarial system for designers that can only lower prices and make it harder to break into an industry that already has a myriad of offshore predators which you are obviously copying?

You obviously have no idea how a designer / developer works, you just seek to pofit from ignorance about an industry you see is an easy touch.

I hope this idea fails miserably and businesses that would think this is a good idea are dissuaded by your failure!

Vee
23-02-2010, 12:35 PM
Sounds like 99designs

designclubau
23-02-2010, 01:07 PM
So you are trying to profit off the very people you will be driving out of business, and that is a positive for who?

Why does there need to be a middleman taking a cut and creating an adversarial system for designers that can only lower prices and make it harder to break into an industry that already has a myriad of offshore predators which you are obviously copying?

You obviously have no idea how a designer / developer works, you just seek to pofit from ignorance about an industry you see is an easy touch.

I hope this idea fails miserably and businesses that would think this is a good idea are dissuaded by your failure!

Alvin, you seem somewhat threatened by this.
We by no means are driving anyone out of business.
Why is it that designers believe they are the only industry that should be immune to cheap competition? There are very few items on this planet where there isn't a cheaper version on offer.

We are simply just trying to fill a market gap that is missing here. It's a market we are currently losing to a lot of overseas business as you have just pointed out, a market that really exists and whether we like it or not...and needs to be catered for.

At the end of the day the cream will always rise to the top, Alvin. If one is truly good at what they do, they can in noway be substituted. The Pros will always be.

Frankly, there are people out there who either cannot afford, or are simply not willing to pay as much as you'd like them to pay for any given project. So what do these people do? They resort to the cheap 'offshore' alternatives that charge peanuts to do the job. What happens to the Young design community looking for opportunity here??? They miss out!!! I know as a fact that New designers develop through experience... and if we continue to lose this market sector to overseas competitors, where can the experience be gained for Newbies?? The last thing we want is for our very own local designers having to resort to overseas platforms and compete with people from less developed countries willing to work for a bottle of water...why not have our own local site where prices are more realistic?

In any instance, a service sans exists if there were no market for it. With DesignClub...we'll just have to wait and see.

Thanks for the input.

PS. Maybe if you had asked a bit more questions about the business instead of coming out and cursing, you would have had a different opinion.

Ray
23-02-2010, 01:46 PM
How does it work? Are buyers "exposed to a whole community of designers", or work already done (in response to the brief) by those designers?

Are you asking designers to submit work for nothing in the hope that their work is selected and paid for? If so - then you've opened up a can of worms.

And there are similar empty cans littered all over the web.

Rachel
23-02-2010, 01:52 PM
I wish you every success with your business.

There will always be people who will turn to this kind of thing because they "want a website" or "want a logo" but don't think about why they want those things and what they want to achieve.

To be honest, I don't want those people as my clients. If you make it so those people don't contact me and instead pay an organ grinder in India, $2, cool.

I'd prefer your site and your reason for being didn't exist. But it does. And you're welcome to the deadbeat clients ;)

Alvin
23-02-2010, 01:58 PM
Designclubau

I am in no way threatened by the idea of competition, it is in fact a reality. I find the idea behind these middleman operations that force new designers to work constantly on spec while masquarading as some form of benevolent friend that has their best interest at heart - ethically bankrupt.

New designers have a myriad of opportunity, they can easily find work and opportunities that give exposure and help communities in which they live by volunteering or working cheaply with Not For Profits, which gives them genuine work experience - in which they engage in the actual design process and learn from interaction with genuine clients.

What you have described is a system that removes the interaction and inserts your company into a slot that is not necessary - a middleman. It will inevitably dissuade talented indivuals way from the web development and design as it creates a negative environment and unprofessionals pimping substandard and stolen work for a quick and cheap buck. It is taking the service aspect out of the game.

Designers are not immune to cheap competition, it is everywhere - not just offshore. You are actually jumping to conlusions and trying to perpetuate the myth that all designers are overpriced, and that you can insert yourself predator style and get in on the fat cat 'action.' As far as people unwilling to pay for services, i spend 100% of my working time presently fixing substandard work from cheap and nasty hacks that have seek to make a quick buck.

Frankly, as you put it, there are free platforms that can be utilised for sites today, free templates, free hosting. What you propose is to milk the unaware dry, create a faux competition that only you win from and demean gullible would be designers into working for nothing but a promise. So hundreds of suckers will work 12 hours days trying to win a competition against other suckers before they become jaded and go into finance or start scheme websites of their own.

And i didn't come out cursing, i expressed my honest opinion. I have seen enough predators move into industries promoting garbage enough to know it when i see it. If you want everyone to openly embrace your unethical business model, you are not going to get it - in any industry.

Alvin
23-02-2010, 02:02 PM
I wish you every success with your business.

There will always be people who will turn to this kind of thing because they "want a website" or "want a logo" but don't think about why they want those things and what they want to achieve.

To be honest, I don't want those people as my clients. If you make it so those people don't contact me and instead pay an organ grinder in India, $2, cool.

I'd prefer your site and your reason for being didn't exist. But it does. And you're welcome to the deadbeat clients ;)

Unfortunately i am of the belief that it is these snake oil salesman that create the demand, and i am perhaps not as diplomatic in my condemnation as you are, but i am not a word smith, just a fat cat suck the poor man dry designer.

designclubau
23-02-2010, 02:24 PM
Designclubau

I am in no way threatened by the idea of competition, it is in fact a reality. I find the idea behind these middleman operations that force new designers to work constantly on spec while masquarading as some form of benevolent friend that has their best interest at heart - ethically bankrupt.

New designers have a myriad of opportunity, they can easily find work and opportunities that give exposure and help communities in which they live by volunteering or working cheaply with Not For Profits, which gives them genuine work experience - in which they engage in the actual design process and learn from interaction with genuine clients.

What you have described is a system that removes the interaction and inserts your company into a slot that is not necessary - a middleman. It will inevitably dissuade talented indivuals way from the web development and design as it creates a negative environment and unprofessionals pimping substandard and stolen work for a quick and cheap buck. It is taking the service aspect out of the game.

Designers are not immune to cheap competition, it is everywhere - not just offshore. You are actually jumping to conlusions and trying to perpetuate the myth that all designers are overpriced, and that you can insert yourself predator style and get in on the fat cat 'action.' As far as people unwilling to pay for services, i spend 100% of my working time presently fixing substandard work from cheap and nasty hacks that have seek to make a quick buck.

Frankly, as you put it, there are free platforms that can be utilised for sites today, free templates, free hosting. What you propose is to milk the unaware dry, create a faux competition that only you win from and demean gullible would be designers into working for nothing but a promise. So hundreds of suckers will work 12 hours days trying to win a competition against other suckers before they become jaded and go into finance or start scheme websites of their own.

And i didn't come out cursing, i expressed my honest opinion. I have seen enough predators move into industries promoting garbage enough to know it when i see it. If you want everyone to openly embrace your unethical business model, you are not going to get it - in any industry.

You have it wrong Alvin, there is no milking or demeaning involved here. No Designer is forced to work for nothing. It is up to personal choice whether to participate or not knowing the consequences. If one does not like it, just walk away. It's in any kind of contest...there's winners and losers, but you have to be in it to win it... It's life.

What we are really aiming to do is to create a platform at which Australian designers can source more income earning jobs, compare and/or see other designers' ideas and creations, and last but not least, it will give them a chance to develop themself as a designer. Hopefully, there are many designers out there employed, unemployed, even freelancing, who would love to have a local site like DesignClub! Let's let the market decide, using biased opinions will get us nowhere here.

Thanks for your input on this Alvin.

PS. Coming out saying I hope your business fails miserably is a form of cursing. All the best to your business Alvin.

Alvin
23-02-2010, 02:45 PM
Designclubau,

So asking wannabe designers to work for nothing is not demeaning? How about you set up your noble site and take no fees from either party?

As far as seeing other designers work, collaborating and getting valuable advice is concerned, you are posting on a site that offers all this and more, without psuedo competition, and i could quote at least another 20 sites off the top of my head, and none of them involve asking someone to work for nothing.

You are not forcing suckers to compete - you are just going to milk their hard work for your own profit - and you wish to enlist cheap minded uneducated bean counters with the promise of cheap labour. Yet they can get much cheaper today, without you involved.


PS. I do sincerely hope your business fails, in this scheme. I wish you all the best when you graduate from Business Ethics Introductory Certificate 1.

This is not cursing, this is an opinion. And healthy debate from interested parties should educate your decisions. How many designers have you consulted about this idea? How many informed businesses have you questioned? If you want a list of businesses that are paying the price to have redesigns and recoding after going through nasty cheap hack alternatives, i can gladly hook you up.

Rachel
23-02-2010, 02:46 PM
Alvin, I agree. It sucks. It is bordering unethical in my book (but it is legal). There are a lot of sites which (and you have yourself) enunciated the problems with spec sites (exploitation, damaging industry reputation and others) and I won't repeat them.

But while this type of thing is legal and ok and flowers and butterflies there's no point in going after the operators. After all, they're just a symptom of a bigger problem: the undervaluing of creative work (and ability to dodge minimum wage laws).

(And don't worry, I have people telling me all the time they can get content written in India for $4 a page. Or "why would I need a writer? I have a CMS!" But those people are not our market.)

Alvin
23-02-2010, 03:01 PM
Rachel,

$4 a page, that is pretty steep, designclubau could quarter that price i am sure, once the site is up and running and the logo competition is all done. :P

I agree, i am not interested in clients that have no idea what is involved, but unfortunately almost all my clients give me a 2 hour speech on 'the other guy' before i can even ask what they need. And these 'other guys' are at least genuine businesses, not just hobbiest playing the ruin an industry game.

designclubau
23-02-2010, 03:01 PM
Designclubau,

So asking wannabe designers to work for nothing is not demeaning? How about you set up your noble site and take no fees from either party?

As far as seeing other designers work, collaborating and getting valuable advice is concerned, you are posting on a site that offers all this and more, without psuedo competition, and i could quote at least another 20 sites off the top of my head, and none of them involve asking someone to work for nothing.

You are not forcing suckers to compete - you are just going to milk their hard work for your own profit - and you wish to enlist cheap minded uneducated bean counters with the promise of cheap labour. Yet they can get much cheaper today, without you involved.


PS. I do sincerely hope your business fails, in this scheme. I wish you all the best when you graduate from Business Ethics Introductory Certificate 1.

This is not cursing, this is an opinion. And healthy debate from interested parties should educate your decisions. How many designers have you consulted about this idea? How many informed businesses have you questioned? If you want a list of businesses that are paying the price to have redesigns and recoding after going through nasty cheap hack alternatives, i can gladly hook you up.

Thanks for your opinions and thoughts. We posted on here to get people's opinion on this topic, negative or positive, we are open to all.

Vee
23-02-2010, 03:27 PM
designclubau, I'm not reading the discussion between yourself and Alvin so excuse me if my question has been answered...

Am I right that you intend Design Club to be only open to Australian designers?

zeroedin
23-02-2010, 05:54 PM
Sounds like 99designs

if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

I certainly hope DesignClub has ways of dealing with some of the problems 99design are (or used to be; I am not sure anymore) plagued with like contest holders bailing out at the last minute before the competition ends and taking an idea without paying.

As for devaluing the industry, i agree, in part. I seem to be a magnet for those $4 clients which i promptly refer to 99designs. They come back about a month later bragging about how they got some awesome deal that I could never match.

I sit quietly and wait for their site to fail spectacularly...

designclubau
23-02-2010, 09:02 PM
designclubau, I'm not reading the discussion between yourself and Alvin so excuse me if my question has been answered...

Am I right that you intend Design Club to be only open to Australian designers?

Hello Vee, yes that is right. We aim to make it in Australia only.

designclubau
23-02-2010, 09:07 PM
if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

I certainly hope DesignClub has ways of dealing with some of the problems 99design are (or used to be; I am not sure anymore) plagued with like contest holders bailing out at the last minute before the competition ends and taking an idea without paying.

As for devaluing the industry, i agree, in part. I seem to be a magnet for those $4 clients which i promptly refer to 99designs. They come back about a month later bragging about how they got some awesome deal that I could never match.

I sit quietly and wait for their site to fail spectacularly...

Hi zeroedin. Yes, we have considered these issues and have some things in mind.
As for these so called $4 clients, I really do believe you get what you pay for.

Thanks for the input.

Vee
23-02-2010, 09:08 PM
Hello Vee, yes that is right. We aim to make it in Australia only.

That right there makes the duck a swan

How do you plan to enforce it?

designclubau
23-02-2010, 09:14 PM
That right there makes the duck a swan

How do you plan to enforce it?

Through verification which will probably be by land line. No verification, no membership perhaps.

kay
23-02-2010, 09:57 PM
Interesting thread. "Design contest" sites are never going to be popular with professional designers who place value in the time they spend on research before they ever pick up a pencil or mouse, so this is probably the wrong place to post to get positive feedback.

Much like 99Designs, this sounds like spec work, so I figured it would be a good time to bring up http://www.no-spec.com/ again, which is a good resource for anyone who hasn't seen it before.

jexley
24-02-2010, 10:12 AM
Despite whomever's whatever, I would like to say that when somebody new bops into the forums with whatever idea it is, I think it's kind of shitty to shit all over them straightaway.

That kind of thing definitely gives a very exclusionary feel to this joint that I don't think is deserving.

That said, I'm not above calling someone an "asshat" if they're being an asshat. I'm just saying that it's better to give them the benefit of the doubt without jumping to conclusions too quickly.

designclubau
24-02-2010, 11:13 AM
Interesting thread. "Design contest" sites are never going to be popular with professional designers who place value in the time they spend on research before they ever pick up a pencil or mouse, so this is probably the wrong place to post to get positive feedback.

Much like 99Designs, this sounds like spec work, so I figured it would be a good time to bring up http://www.no-spec.com/ again, which is a good resource for anyone who hasn't seen it before.

Hi Kay, thanks for your input on this thread.
I have had a look at no-spec, and totally aware of the concerns that it raises which may well be very good ones indeed. Yet, it seems somewhat biased in most respects.

Have a look here (http://www.erica.biz/2010/crowdsourcing-your-logo-design-should-you-do-it-99designs-review/) , this is a genuine person who has had work done through most ways available, and her opinion is a very interesting one.

temp
24-02-2010, 12:09 PM
I have some feedback!

The current page states: "you'll love it so much you'll make it your start page", however that's not a thing that people do.

temp
24-02-2010, 12:13 PM
Have a look here (http://www.erica.biz/2010/crowdsourcing-your-logo-design-should-you-do-it-99designs-review/) , this is a genuine person who has had work done through most ways available, and her opinion is a very interesting one.

Just because something works as a business doesn't mean it's not a piece of shit though, right? There are people with quite profitable endeavours selling instant coffee, or heroin, to name just two examples... but profit alone doesn't make this interesting... does it?

EDIT: I just re-read jexley's post and I agree - hello design club I'm not trying to be prick, we are actually nice and approachable people here sorry.

Alvin
24-02-2010, 02:02 PM
Despite whomever's whatever, I would like to say that when somebody new bops into the forums with whatever idea it is, I think it's kind of shitty to shit all over them straightaway.

That kind of thing definitely gives a very exclusionary feel to this joint that I don't think is deserving.

No big secret that i don't like this idea, and i will concede my approach was a little harsh. But are you advocating everyone openly embraces overtly marketed wares on Post #1, without challenge?

Seriously, if the only reason a new person enters any community is to drum up business without contributing, how long until only pushy salesman are in the community?

tuna
24-02-2010, 02:24 PM
designclubau

Best of luck, the concept and business does cater for a distinct audience of designers and clients. This is fine, as the market does need to fill this hole. I would prefer at least if it occurred in a professional manner in which both parties can get professional guidance of the right way to approach things. Hopefully you can provide a framework for that to happen.

designclubau
24-02-2010, 02:39 PM
designclubau

Best of luck, the concept and business does cater for a distinct audience of designers and clients. This is fine, as the market does need to fill this hole. I would prefer at least if it occurred in a professional manner in which both parties can get professional guidance of the right way to approach things. Hopefully you can provide a framework for that to happen.

Thanks for the input tuna. Agreed, there is an audience from both sides that this kind of platform would cater for. And we believe with a little more input from everyone, we can make it a more welcoming experience for all.
It would be much appreciated if you could elaborate a little on the positive qualities you would like to see from a concept like this. :wink:

jexley
25-02-2010, 09:15 AM
Seriously, if the only reason a new person enters any community is to drum up business without contributing, how long until only pushy salesman are in the community?

I'm probably just excited that it's not a fkn spambot leaving random PMs and posts. I don't like pushy salesman either.

I guess in the long run, I'd still prefer a human trying to flog their shit than a bot, but if you want to run 'em outta town sheriff, I ain't gunna stop yew.

But are you advocating everyone openly embraces overtly marketed wares on Post #1, without challenge?

Wouldn't do that and said nothing of the sort. Thought what I said was pretty clear.

heist
25-02-2010, 10:10 AM
I'd like to see something other than another cash-in on designers who're naive enough to work for free.

"It'll be great for your portfolio"

"Think of it as a foot in the door"

While you're at it you might as well start a penny-auction site.

harmonysteel
02-03-2010, 08:22 AM
Designclub - My major concern with your concept (in addition to all the others already voiced here) is that one of your major selling points seems to be clients get to choose the design THEY like.

Good design has nothing to do with what client's personally like, and everything to do with what their target audience likes - otherwise the client is just wasting their money. It'd be like the CEO of McDonalds deciding to change the McDonalds branding from the iconic red and yellow arches (which elicit a specific response in people - the color combination alone makes people feel hungry and prone to make quick decisions) to blue and pink with flowers because the CEO likes blue and pink with flowers. McDonalds would start losing revenue if they did this - guarenteed - because they would no longer be reaching their target audience in an effective manner.

You're in a unique position as the only person (that I've seen anyway) starting something like this for Australian designers only. I hope you can see that as the opportunity and responsibility it is and you will put measures in place to protect those young Australian designers who choose to participate from being undercut even further by overseas vendors pretending to be Australian - consider minimum pricing so some client who's been trawling eLance and has seen Indian designers bid on a logo design for $10 will not come to your site expecting the same. Our costs of living here are so much higher and minimum prices must reflect that.

Fellow designers - Something has been bothering me for a while now about our whole industry and that's the idea that most clients have no clue how much quality web design costs because none of us will post pricing on our websites. I realise this is a contentious issue and there's good reason for not posting pricing (competition undercutting etc) but I wonder if we're doing ourselves more harm than good?

Would it be worth considering putting in place a voluntary Australian pricing standard for web design where there's a base rate for services and designers can charge more (never less) than that based on what they uniquely bring to the table? For example, a student fresh out of uni without much of a portfolio might charge the base rate for a new website for a band, e.g. $40 or $50 an hour, while a veteran with 12 years experience and a speciality in music industry websites might charge $200 an hour because they're bringing so much more value to the table (experience, specialty expertise, project management, past proven successes etc.)

Would love to know what you think about this - if I'm hijacking the thread and this deserves a new post let me know!

Thanks
Harm

tuna
02-03-2010, 08:25 AM
Would it be worth considering putting in place a voluntary Australian pricing standard for web design where there's a base rate for services and designers can charge more (never less) than that based on what they uniquely bring to the table? For example, a student fresh out of uni without much of a portfolio might charge the base rate for a new website for a band, e.g. $40 or $50 an hour, while a veteran with 12 years experience and a speciality in music industry websites might charge $200 an hour because they're bringing so much more value to the table (experience, specialty expertise, project management, past proven successes etc.)

Would love to know what you think about this - if I'm hijacking the thread and this deserves a new post let me know!

Thanks
Harm

That's call price fixing - ASIC anyone.

harmonysteel
02-03-2010, 08:37 AM
Damn, you're right Tuna, didn't think of it that way :( - http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/322980

Seriously though there has to be some legitimate way Australian designers can all get a fair price for their work?

scross
02-03-2010, 10:09 AM
Seriously though there has to be some legitimate way Australian designers can all get a fair price for their work?


Healthy competition and the market is what should keep prices legitimate.

I think one of the biggest issues is that there is no open communication about what we should charge for certain services. Coming out of uni, I found it very difficult to know what I could charge clients for both my services and experience (or lack there of when I was first starting out). Going through a process of trial and error wasn't always as profitable as I would have liked :)

Maybe there needs to be more attention paid, at the uni level, to working out how to come to a realistic price that is both suitable to the client and the designer/developer?

Rachel
02-03-2010, 12:06 PM
I think low prices are symptomatic of two things:

- undervaluing of work (by both designers themselves and the community generally)
- lack of industry support/guidelines/education

I'm not sure minimum wage laws contemplate a "price per piece" type situation. As Gary points out, setting a price point without a minimum wage determination would not be a good idea.

The solutions to the problems are complex but strengthening AWIA and its role won't hurt.

I fear many young designers feel they can only compete on price (is this easier than developing skills and a USP in this market?) and this should be discouraged, both for the sake of the individual designer and the industry generally. If we want to be taken seriously we need to show value in what we offer clients. We need to work better and be better.

designclubau
04-03-2010, 09:19 AM
Designclub - My major concern with your concept (in addition to all the others already voiced here) is that one of your major selling points seems to be clients get to choose the design THEY like.

Good design has nothing to do with what client's personally like, and everything to do with what their target audience likes - otherwise the client is just wasting their money. It'd be like the CEO of McDonalds deciding to change the McDonalds branding from the iconic red and yellow arches (which elicit a specific response in people - the color combination alone makes people feel hungry and prone to make quick decisions) to blue and pink with flowers because the CEO likes blue and pink with flowers. McDonalds would start losing revenue if they did this - guarenteed - because they would no longer be reaching their target audience in an effective manner.

You're in a unique position as the only person (that I've seen anyway) starting something like this for Australian designers only. I hope you can see that as the opportunity and responsibility it is and you will put measures in place to protect those young Australian designers who choose to participate from being undercut even further by overseas vendors pretending to be Australian - consider minimum pricing so some client who's been trawling eLance and has seen Indian designers bid on a logo design for $10 will not come to your site expecting the same. Our costs of living here are so much higher and minimum prices must reflect that.

Fellow designers - Something has been bothering me for a while now about our whole industry and that's the idea that most clients have no clue how much quality web design costs because none of us will post pricing on our websites. I realise this is a contentious issue and there's good reason for not posting pricing (competition undercutting etc) but I wonder if we're doing ourselves more harm than good?

Would it be worth considering putting in place a voluntary Australian pricing standard for web design where there's a base rate for services and designers can charge more (never less) than that based on what they uniquely bring to the table? For example, a student fresh out of uni without much of a portfolio might charge the base rate for a new website for a band, e.g. $40 or $50 an hour, while a veteran with 12 years experience and a speciality in music industry websites might charge $200 an hour because they're bringing so much more value to the table (experience, specialty expertise, project management, past proven successes etc.)

Would love to know what you think about this - if I'm hijacking the thread and this deserves a new post let me know!

Thanks
Harm

Hi Harm, thanks for your input.
I agree with you in a sense that good design may not be what the client likes, but rather what would appeal to the target audience. For a big name like McDonalds, I really doubt they would be using a service such as Design Club to get a design done, let alone their CEO being involved in the process. Also, they would have spent a great deal of resources into researching the market before anything.

Let's think about 'target audience'. Who would be using Design Club?
Obviously, it will be much smaller businesses than McDonalds who would like to have choice of seeing the product before purchasing, and more importantly aren't in a position to spend large. These businesses simply just want a logo that suits their website, or looks good on paper, on vehicles, or even their coffee mug. The logo they choose will have some form of relevance to their business and is a good fit in their mind. From a designers point of view, they may not choose the best design for their business (for what ever reason it may be), but from the clients' perspective, they have acquired something they are really content and satisfied with. And that's what it comes down to here, customer satisfaction.

Yes, we do understand the responsibility Design Club has, and we will in no way be allowing ridiculous prices as you may see on other overseas sites. There will always be people who do prefer to use these overseas alternatives and at the end of the day, they will get what they pay for. We can assure you that there will be no $10 logos here!!!

ashul
04-03-2010, 10:28 AM
Not sure if it is my internet connection, but I can get a Google cached copy of the website but not the website itself, is the site down?

designclubau
04-03-2010, 11:05 AM
Not sure if it is my internet connection, but I can get a Google cached copy of the website but not the website itself, is the site down?

Hi Ashul,
We are currently changing the hosting servers. Should be back up shortly.
Cheers.

James Bull
04-03-2010, 11:25 AM
Yes, we do understand the responsibility Design Club has, and we will in no way be allowing ridiculous prices as you may see on other overseas sites. There will always be people who do prefer to use these overseas alternatives and at the end of the day, they will get what they pay for. We can assure you that there will be no $10 logos here!!!

Does this mean you will set a minimum price?

Can you filter out overseas entries by requiring designers to provide an ABN and/or Australian bank account details?

Apologies if you've already answered these questions: I haven't read all the other posts in detail, and the website is still offline so I can't check your T's & C's.

James.

harmonysteel
04-03-2010, 11:38 AM
Can you filter out overseas entries by requiring designers to provide an ABN and/or Australian bank account details?

Actually that's a really good idea.

Designclubau - it may be useful to have a few measures in place as from what I can see overseas businesses may be able to apply for an ABN according to this - http://help.abr.gov.au/content.asp?doc=/content/16985.htm&usertype=BC

Maybe an ABN and a MediCare number? Stuff that you'd have to be an Australian citizen / resident to recieve.

designclubau
04-03-2010, 12:25 PM
Does this mean you will set a minimum price?

Can you filter out overseas entries by requiring designers to provide an ABN and/or Australian bank account details?

Apologies if you've already answered these questions: I haven't read all the other posts in detail, and the website is still offline so I can't check your T's & C's.

James.

Hi James,
We will try to enforce this by making it a requirement to enter your State, postcode, and phone number. Also, in our terms and conditions, we will have a section on people giving false information etc...
At this stage, we feel this would be appropriate enough. As much as we would like to avoid people entering false identity, it does happen even on the big sites (without mentioning names here, but the big E marketplace) so it's virtually impossible to make a 100% fool proof system.

BTW, our site is still yet to be launched and ATM there is only a landing page.

Oh, I almost forgot. Yes, we will have a minimum starting price for any type of job. Clients can not post up jobs for less than what has been set by Design Club.

Cheers.

Vee
04-03-2010, 12:26 PM
@James, from DCau regarding limiting the site to Australians;

Through verification which will probably be by land line. No verification, no membership perhaps.

harmonysteel
04-03-2010, 02:50 PM
We will try to enforce this by making it a requirement to enter your State, postcode, and phone number.

Since freelancers are also required to have an ABN in order to do business in Australia you should ask for that as well since anyone from any country could easily fake a state / postcode / phone number and then organise phone forwarding to an international line (and believe me, there will be people who'll do that).

Identity
22-04-2010, 04:22 AM
If you actually set a $1000 minimum this might be more interesting, however, indian /indonesian/filipino companies are just fine at getting a phone number, virtual office and ABN, so you'd still be getting foreign 'talent' popping up. If you made it non-spec, but instead portfolio-based with the option to charge potential client for introduction based on the agency's portfolio/sample work, this would actually be interesting. as it is, you're open to problems from non-payment to child labour (99d is a great example of this - Australia makes it illegal to use those 14 year olds!)

I personally hate the idea in it's current form. That you're posting a request for spec work makes me want to req. a mod to rip your account in two and use it for loo-roll. But taking the vitriolic approach from the design community you've asked, why don't you look a the market a different way, and be a proud creator of symbiosis instead of leeching.

J

designclubau
27-05-2010, 08:10 AM
hello everyone,

After months of programming, testing, and designing, we are proud to announce that DesignClub is finally live and holding designing contests!

Check it out:
Launch of DesignClub Australia - http://eepurl.com/znw9

Regards,
DesignClub AU

d@n
27-05-2010, 10:03 AM
I wish you much failure with it.

WorldFamousWebdeveloper
27-05-2010, 01:44 PM
I wish you much failure with it.
I was going to say that !!


Mr LackofDesignClub.com.au
Firstly, your homesite is amateurish to the extreme.
If you are promoting yourself as a designer, at least learn DESIGN.
Secondly, in Australia we have an excellent education system, so please use it. Then you can embrace the concepts of correct spelling and grammar.
Thirdly, Use of a URL shortener SCREAMS out to most webusers as SPAM!

Vee
27-05-2010, 02:24 PM
If you are promoting yourself as a designer, at least learn DESIGN.

They aren't, it's a 99designs clone

d@n - I don't know why you get so upset? I used 99d once and it cost me just as much as working with a pro so I haven't bothered since.

You probably don't want the majority of people who use these services as clients anyway.

WorldFamousWebdeveloper
27-05-2010, 02:59 PM
They aren't, it's a 99designs clone

I know that , my point exactly. If promoting designers, then use original designs

designclubau
28-05-2010, 07:50 AM
I wish you much failure with it.

Hi d@n,

Thank you for your lovely words. We wish you the very best of luck in your future endeavors.

Cheers.

designclubau
28-05-2010, 07:52 AM
I was going to say that !!


Mr LackofDesignClub.com.au
Firstly, your homesite is amateurish to the extreme.
If you are promoting yourself as a designer, at least learn DESIGN.
Secondly, in Australia we have an excellent education system, so please use it. Then you can embrace the concepts of correct spelling and grammar.
Thirdly, Use of a URL shortener SCREAMS out to most webusers as SPAM!

Hi WorldFamousWebdeveloper,

Thank you for your feedback too. We know we are not perfect. We still have few mistakes here and there and we will do our best to correct them.

Thanks again.

Cheers.

d@n
28-05-2010, 09:19 AM
They aren't, it's a 99designs clone

d@n - I don't know why you get so upset? I used 99d once and it cost me just as much as working with a pro so I haven't bothered since.

You probably don't want the majority of people who use these services as clients anyway.
Does that justify it's existence? I don't think so. You can either educate clients to the value of proper design & processes or you can continue to spread the (wrong) message that design can be a contest they should pay as little as possible for.

Vee
28-05-2010, 11:47 AM
You can either educate clients to the value of proper design & processes or you can continue to spread the (wrong) message that design can be a contest they should pay as little as possible for.

I don't know anyone that would encourage the use of spec design services like this unless the client is intent on paying the least they possibly can.

How do you educate a client like that?

d@n
28-05-2010, 12:24 PM
I don't know anyone that would encourage the use of spec design services like this unless the client is intent on paying the least they possibly can.
People talk. All you need is one misguided person who thinks this is the way it is done (and costs), to tell another person and so the thing snowballs.

How do you educate a client like that?
With sites like that around it certainly makes it harder. You need to explain to them the value of hiring a designer and the correct process of design vs the contest mentality.

Vee
28-05-2010, 01:24 PM
My point is that for the most part, you will probably never get the opportunity to speak to these clients before it too late?

LUKIE
30-05-2010, 11:30 PM
I see Design like beer.

If people don't respect beer and are uneducated about good beer, they drink the cheap mass produced crap, instead of going for a real product (like Little Creatures and other craft beers).

It is very hard to educate these people otherwise.

If people don't respect Design, they will go for the cheapest, crappy product.

d@n
31-05-2010, 06:22 AM
Beer companies don't have a 3rd party running a contest and dictating the price to sell their product.

jexley
31-05-2010, 07:56 AM
Yet somehow, because he mentioned beer, I'm far more interested in this thread.

Vee
31-05-2010, 09:03 AM
Beer companies don't have a 3rd party running a contest and dictating the price to sell their product.

Ugh, you're still missing the point - competition takes on different forms for different industries

Are you prepared to do your work for the same money as a spec design contest? No, of course not, so don't even consider these people as prospective clients.

I've given up on caring about competing with the asshats who claim that charging over $1000 for a website is extortion and I'm all the better for it - I suggest you do the same.

d@n
31-05-2010, 02:52 PM
Yeah I suppose I could stick my head in the sand and pretend it doesn't matter.

WorldFamousWebdeveloper
31-05-2010, 03:22 PM
The way Most people see it, design "Contests" are actually something better done as a Tender or Quote.

If you wish to get a range of prices from a selection of designers for a particular job, then it is NOT a Contest but a quote.
Contest implies recognition for highest achievement, not best deal.

scross
01-06-2010, 10:10 AM
The way Most people see it, design "Contests" are actually something better done as a Tender or Quote.

If you wish to get a range of prices from a selection of designers for a particular job, then it is NOT a Contest but a quote.
Contest implies recognition for highest achievement, not best deal.

Nicely said!

Vee
01-06-2010, 03:18 PM
d@n!

I have a link for you!

http://freelanceswitch.com/freelance-freedom/freelance-freedom-158/

d@n
01-06-2010, 03:30 PM
Seen all the jokes vee.